{"id":66072,"date":"2022-01-20T17:40:42","date_gmt":"2022-01-20T14:40:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/?p=66072"},"modified":"2024-08-24T03:28:31","modified_gmt":"2024-08-24T00:28:31","slug":"cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks\/","title":{"rendered":"Cloud Foundry Advisory Board Call, Jan 2022: Feedback Around Buildpacks"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The first Cloud Foundry Community Advisory Board (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/tag\/cab\/\">CAB<\/a>) meeting for 2022 centered around developer experience regarding buildpacks and a summary of updates from the working groups. The call was moderated by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/ramanujank\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Ram Iyengar<\/a> from the CF Foundation.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div id=\"ez-toc-container\" class=\"ez-toc-v2_0_82_2 counter-hierarchy ez-toc-counter ez-toc-transparent ez-toc-container-direction\">\n<div class=\"ez-toc-title-container\">\n<p class=\"ez-toc-title\" style=\"cursor:inherit\">Table of Contents<\/p>\n<span class=\"ez-toc-title-toggle\"><a href=\"#\" class=\"ez-toc-pull-right ez-toc-btn ez-toc-btn-xs ez-toc-btn-default ez-toc-toggle\" aria-label=\"Toggle Table of Content\"><span class=\"ez-toc-js-icon-con\"><span class=\"\"><span class=\"eztoc-hide\" style=\"display:none;\">Toggle<\/span><span class=\"ez-toc-icon-toggle-span\"><svg style=\"fill: #999;color:#999\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" class=\"list-377408\" width=\"20px\" height=\"20px\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" fill=\"none\"><path d=\"M6 6H4v2h2V6zm14 0H8v2h12V6zM4 11h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2zM4 16h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2z\" fill=\"currentColor\"><\/path><\/svg><svg style=\"fill: #999;color:#999\" class=\"arrow-unsorted-368013\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"10px\" height=\"10px\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" version=\"1.2\" baseProfile=\"tiny\"><path d=\"M18.2 9.3l-6.2-6.3-6.2 6.3c-.2.2-.3.4-.3.7s.1.5.3.7c.2.2.4.3.7.3h11c.3 0 .5-.1.7-.3.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7zM5.8 14.7l6.2 6.3 6.2-6.3c.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7c-.2-.2-.4-.3-.7-.3h-11c-.3 0-.5.1-.7.3-.2.2-.3.5-.3.7s.1.5.3.7z\"\/><\/svg><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/a><\/span><\/div>\n<nav><ul class='ez-toc-list ez-toc-list-level-1 ' ><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-1\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks\/#Community_experience_with_buildpacks\" >Community experience with buildpacks<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-2\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks\/#Paketo_buildpacks\" >Paketo buildpacks<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-3\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks\/#Foundation_updates\" >Foundation updates<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks\/#Want_details_Watch_the_video\" >Want details? Watch the video!<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks\/#Related_reading\" >Related reading<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/nav><\/div>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Community_experience_with_buildpacks\"><\/span>Community experience with buildpacks<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Buildpacks provide framework and runtime support for applications. By identifying dependencies, buildpacks determine how to configure apps, so they can communicate with bound services. In 2018, Pivotal (now, part of VMware) and Heroku began the <a href=\"https:\/\/buildpacks.io\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Cloud Native Buildpacks<\/a> project, to create a public, cross-platform build tool serving major modern programming language ecosystems. (You can read more about Cloud Native Buildpacks in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/streamlining-the-creation-of-docker-images-with-cloud-native-buildpacks\/\">this series<\/a>.)<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_66088\" style=\"width: 160px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Lakshmi-Narasimhan-Parthasarathy-1.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-66088\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Lakshmi-Narasimhan-Parthasarathy-1-150x150.jpg\" width=\"150\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-66088\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-66088\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Lakshmi Parthasarathy<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p>During the call, various community members expressed how the project has made it easier to develop applications and how helpful the <a href=\"https:\/\/slack.buildpacks.io\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Paketo Slack community<\/a> have been. They also shared some of the issues they faced while using <a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/streamlining-the-creation-of-docker-images-with-cloud-native-buildpacks\/\">Cloud Native Buildpacks<\/a> and inquired about possible features that can be implemented in the future. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/lakshminp\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Lakshmi Narasimhan Parthasarathy<\/a>, Principal Engineer at Platformatory, raised an issue that was specific to Drupal.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;Buildpacks aggressively cache your image layers, and the way a Drupal project is structured is [that] composer packages [are] installed alongside the source code in the same directory scaffold. So, whenever you&#8217;re building a new image from a cache layer, all your composer packages go away.&#8221; \u2014Lakshmi Narasimhan Parthasarathy, Platformatory<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Lakshmi also shared a limitation in Python when installing dependencies. &#8220;The buildpack expects <code style=\"color: black; background-color: #e6e6e6;\">requirements.txt<\/code>, which is a catalog of all the library dependencies for Python applications, to be present at the top-level directory,&#8221; he explained. &#8220;There is no way to configure that to be anywhere else. In a typical Django project, [the requirements are] in different folders. For example, you might have the dev version of the requirements in <code style=\"color: black; background-color: #e6e6e6;\">dev.txt<\/code> and the production version in <code style=\"color: black; background-color: #e6e6e6;\">production.txt<\/code>. There is no way to specify an alternative name or folder structure for the requirements.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Paketo_buildpacks\"><\/span>Paketo buildpacks<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<div id=\"attachment_66082\" style=\"width: 160px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Jerico-Pena.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-66082\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Jerico-Pena-150x150.jpg\" width=\"150\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-66082\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-66082\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Jerico Pena<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p>With Paketo buildpacks being built around Ubuntu, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jerico-pena\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Jerico Pena<\/a>, Senior Software Engineer at Rapid7, asked whether or not there were any plans to create a version for Red Hat. In response, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/sophiewigmore\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Sophie Wigmore<\/a>, Software Engineer at VMware and Core Engineer of the Paketo team, acknowledged that Paketo buildpacks currently support only the Ubuntu stack image, but supporting universal base images (UBIs) is a direction the team is considering. She also suggested that Paketo buildpacks might still work with different operating systems, and there are methods that can be used to <a href=\"https:\/\/buildpacks.io\/docs\/operator-guide\/create-a-stack\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">make custom stacks<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_66081\" style=\"width: 160px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Sophie-Wigmore.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-66081\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Sophie-Wigmore-150x150.jpg\" width=\"150\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-66081\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-66081\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Sophie Wigmore<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;The main issue is that we compile all of our dependencies from source against Ubuntu. There&#8217;s a pretty high chance that some of those dependencies will just work depending on what the stack is, and you may not actually have to recompile them. You could support you own custom stack&#8230;you could use all the different <a href=\"https:\/\/github.com\/buildpacks\/samples\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">boiler plates<\/a> that we have and sub in whatever base image you want. Use our tooling that exists within Paketo to bundle up that stack and use it inside a builder, and that should take you very far depending on which operating system you&#8217;re trying it for.&#8221; \u2014Sophie Wigmore, VMware<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div id=\"attachment_66098\" style=\"width: 160px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Wayne-E-Seguin.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-66098\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Wayne-E-Seguin-150x150.jpg\" width=\"150\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-66098\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-66098\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Wayne E. Seguin<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p>Next, other community members, including <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/pburkholder\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Peter Burkholder<\/a>, Security and Compliance Lead at Cloud.gov, and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/wayneeseguin\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Wayne E. Seguin<\/a>, CTO at Stark &#038; Wayne, brought up other concerns, including:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"margin-bottom: 6px;\">Will there be a Cloud Foundry shim for Paketo buldpacks in the staging process?<\/li>\n<li>Are there plans to integrate DockerSlim or similar tools to make containers smaller, and, more importantly, a lot more secure by default?<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Most of the concerns raised by the community are already being discussed within the Paketo team.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_66093\" style=\"width: 160px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Timothy-Hitchener.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-66093\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Timothy-Hitchener-150x150.jpg\" width=\"150\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-66093\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-66093\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Timothy Hitchener<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p>Sophie and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/timothy-hitchener\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Timothy Hitchener<\/a>, Member of Technical Staff 2 at VMware and also Core Engineer of the Paketo team, recommended bringing up and discussing existing issues in the <a href=\"https:\/\/slack.buildpacks.io\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Paketo Slack channel<\/a> to further increase awareness and possibly shift development priorities.<\/p>\n<p>The Paketo working group regularly meets on Tuesday at 2 a.m. ET. Sophie and Timothy encouraged community members to join the weekly <a href=\"https:\/\/github.com\/paketo-buildpacks\/community#paketo-project-working-group-meeting\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">working group meetings<\/a> to add to the discussion.<\/p>\n<p><small><a href=\"https:\/\/github.com\/cloudfoundry\/community\/blob\/main\/toc\/working-groups\/paketo.md\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Paketo working group<\/a><\/small><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Foundation_updates\"><\/span>Foundation updates<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<div id=\"attachment_55412\" style=\"width: 150px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/Ram-Iyengar.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-55412\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/Ram-Iyengar-150x150.jpg\" width=\"140\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-55412\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-55412\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Ram Iyengar<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p>During the call, Ram noted that some of the working groups, such as <a href=\"https:\/\/github.com\/orgs\/cloudfoundry\/projects\/13\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Application Runtime Platform<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/github.com\/orgs\/cloudfoundry\/projects\/21\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Foundational Infrastructure<\/a>, have already adopted an open roadmap to make developments more transparent to the community.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;Folks can now see what different people are working on. We can get an idea of where the contributors&#8217; heads are at. This also helps us to understand where any of the new issues and pull requests line up.&#8221; \u2014Ram Iyengar, Cloud Foundry Foundation<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The next CAB call is tentatively scheduled on February 16, 2022, at 11 a.m. ET \/ 8 a.m. PT. Anyone interested in participating can join the Cloud Foundry\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/cloudfoundry.slack.com\/messages\/C0JC2JB0W\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">CAB<\/a> Slack channel.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Want_details_Watch_the_video\"><\/span>Want details? Watch the video!<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p><center><iframe loading=\"lazy\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/AMkSK2Q8ATA\" title=\"YouTube video player\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/center><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<br \/>\n<small>Below, you can also find the recording of the latest Technical Oversight Committee meeting.<\/small><\/p>\n<p><center><iframe loading=\"lazy\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/JgUYIaB-GuI\" title=\"YouTube video player\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/center><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Related_reading\"><\/span>Related reading<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/streamlining-the-creation-of-docker-images-with-cloud-native-buildpacks\/\">Cloud Native Buildpacks: Streamlining the Creation of Docker Images<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-native-buildpacks-creating-custom-components\/\">Cloud Native Buildpacks: Creating a Stack for Custom Components<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-native-buildpacks-how-to-create-a-custom-buildpack\/\">Cloud Native Buildpacks: How to Create a Custom Buildpack<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-native-buildpacks-how-to-create-a-custom-builder\/\">Cloud Native Buildpacks: How to Design a Custom Builder<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The first Cloud Foundry Community Advisory Board (CAB) meeting for 2022 centered around developer experience regarding buildpacks and a summary of updates from the working groups. The call was moderated by Ram Iyengar from the CF Foundation.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Community experience with buildpacks<\/p>\n<p>Buildpacks provide framework and runtime support for applications. By identifying dependencies, [&#8230;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":32,"featured_media":66103,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[7],"tags":[618,873,912,206],"class_list":["post-66072","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news-and-opinion","tag-cab","tag-cloud-native","tag-kubernetes","tag-oss-cloud-foundry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Cloud Foundry Advisory Board Call, Jan 2022: Feedback Around Buildpacks | Altoros<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Community members recommended additions to the Paketo buildpacks roadmap, including expanding beyond Ubuntu, facilitating security, etc.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Cloud Foundry Advisory Board Call, Jan 2022: Feedback Around Buildpacks | Altoros\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"The first Cloud Foundry Community Advisory Board (CAB) meeting for 2022 centered around developer experience regarding buildpacks and a summary of updates from the working groups. The call was moderated by Ram Iyengar from the CF Foundation. &nbsp; Community experience with buildpacks Buildpacks provide framework and runtime support for applications. By identifying dependencies, [...]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-call-jan-2022-feedback-around-buildpacks\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Altoros\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2022-01-20T14:40:42+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2024-08-24T00:28:31+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/Cloud-Foundry-Advisory-Board-CAB-january-2021-Paketo-Buildpacks.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1024\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"512\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Carlo Gutierrez\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Carlo Gutierrez\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. 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