{"id":32396,"date":"2018-04-19T19:31:26","date_gmt":"2018-04-19T16:31:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/?p=32396"},"modified":"2021-12-17T00:17:56","modified_gmt":"2021-12-16T21:17:56","slug":"cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow\/","title":{"rendered":"Cloud Foundry Advisory Board Meeting, Apr 2018: Kubernetes Casts Its Shadow"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"ez-toc-container\" class=\"ez-toc-v2_0_82_2 counter-hierarchy ez-toc-counter ez-toc-transparent ez-toc-container-direction\">\n<div class=\"ez-toc-title-container\">\n<p class=\"ez-toc-title\" style=\"cursor:inherit\">Table of Contents<\/p>\n<span class=\"ez-toc-title-toggle\"><a href=\"#\" class=\"ez-toc-pull-right ez-toc-btn ez-toc-btn-xs ez-toc-btn-default ez-toc-toggle\" aria-label=\"Toggle Table of Content\"><span class=\"ez-toc-js-icon-con\"><span class=\"\"><span class=\"eztoc-hide\" style=\"display:none;\">Toggle<\/span><span class=\"ez-toc-icon-toggle-span\"><svg style=\"fill: #999;color:#999\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" class=\"list-377408\" width=\"20px\" height=\"20px\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" fill=\"none\"><path d=\"M6 6H4v2h2V6zm14 0H8v2h12V6zM4 11h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2zM4 16h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2z\" fill=\"currentColor\"><\/path><\/svg><svg style=\"fill: #999;color:#999\" class=\"arrow-unsorted-368013\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"10px\" height=\"10px\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" version=\"1.2\" baseProfile=\"tiny\"><path d=\"M18.2 9.3l-6.2-6.3-6.2 6.3c-.2.2-.3.4-.3.7s.1.5.3.7c.2.2.4.3.7.3h11c.3 0 .5-.1.7-.3.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7zM5.8 14.7l6.2 6.3 6.2-6.3c.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7c-.2-.2-.4-.3-.7-.3h-11c-.3 0-.5.1-.7.3-.2.2-.3.5-.3.7s.1.5.3.7z\"\/><\/svg><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/a><\/span><\/div>\n<nav><ul class='ez-toc-list ez-toc-list-level-1 ' ><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-1\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow\/#Discussions_about_Kubernetes\" >Discussions about Kubernetes<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-2\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow\/#Side_by_side_or_layered\" >Side by side or layered?<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-3\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow\/#Wishing_for_a_unified_user_experience\" >Wishing for a unified user experience<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow\/#How_critical_are_things_really\" >How critical are things, really?<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow\/#Whats_next\" >What&#8217;s next?<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/nav><\/div>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Discussions_about_Kubernetes\"><\/span>Discussions about Kubernetes<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<div id=\"attachment_31876\" style=\"width: 130px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/Dave-Nielsen-new.jpe\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-31876\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/Dave-Nielsen-new-150x150.jpe\" alt=\"\" width=\"120\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-31876\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-31876\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Dave Nielsen<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/visuals\/kubernetes-kubectl-cli-cheat-sheet\/\">Kubernetes<\/a> has cast a long shadow over the Cloud Foundry community this past year and continued to do so in the early hours of the Cloud Foundry Summit 2018 in Boston and at this month&#8217;s Community Advisory Board (CAB) call.<\/p>\n<p>The summit was preceded by a traditional \u201cunconference\u201d the night before, led as usual by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/dnielsen\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Dave Nielsen<\/a> from Redis Labs. Kubernetes, its features, and its role for Cloud Foundry developers was prominent in the conversation there.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_11433\" style=\"width: 130px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/Michael-Maximilien.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-11433\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/Michael-Maximilien-150x150.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"120\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-11433\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-11433\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Dr. Max<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p>The CAB call, led right from the summit by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/drmaximilien\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Michael Maximilien<\/a> (aka Dr. Max) of IBM, did not follow a specific agenda, but did continue the Kubernetes conversation. Nestled amongst a lot of technical talk about droplets, interfaces, and container-related issues, two main themes emerged from this conversation:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>what roles Kubernetes capabilities should play<\/li>\n<li>how the community should view the integration of Cloud Foundry and Kubernetes<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Side_by_side_or_layered\"><\/span>Side by side or layered?<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<div id=\"attachment_11432\" style=\"width: 130px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/Dr.-Julz.png\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-11432\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/Dr.-Julz-150x150.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"120\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-11432\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-11432\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Dr. Julz<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/julian-friedman\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Julian Friedman<\/a> (aka Dr. Julz) of IBM took what one could call a descriptive approach, outlining how \u201cmany users have Kubernetes now\u201d and seem to prefer its features. Dr. Julz said he continues to think of the two technologies existing side by side, each with capabilities that are proving popular among developers. \u201cIf users like a certain Kubernetes feature, then great, there&#8217;s no reason to argue about whether Cloud Foundry can and should do it better,\u201d he noted.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Max told he likes to think of Kubernetes and Cloud Foundry as vertically integrated layers, reinforcing a point several people had also made at the Unconference that Kubernetes should be thought of as an infrastructure, not as a platform. He expressed a concern that adoption could impede Cloud Foundry&#8217;s innovation, something he does not want to see within an open-source community that by its nature should be innovative and collaborative.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>\u201cIf you integrate too closely, then you can lose the value of both technologies.\u201d<br \/>\n\u2014Michael Maximilien, IBM<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div id=\"attachment_11430\" style=\"width: 130px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/Eric-Malm.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-11430\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/Eric-Malm-150x150.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"120\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-11430\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-11430\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Eric Malm<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/eric-malm-a3554117\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Eric Malm<\/a> from Pivotal noted that \u201clayering blows up everything\u201d when it fails, in contrast to keeping problems in discrete areas when Kubernetes and Cloud Foundry are envisioned and constructed to run side by side.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/creating-your-first-serverless-app-with-aws-lambda-and-the-serverless-framework\/\">Serverless architectures<\/a> also entered into the conversation, along with the observation that there is still a lot of \u201cstateful stuff\u201d within enterprise IT, and it needs to be managed.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Wishing_for_a_unified_user_experience\"><\/span>Wishing for a unified user experience<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Dr. Max also asked attendees to talk about something on their Cloud Foundry \u201cwish list.\u201d A unified user experience emerged on this list, even as Kubernetes and Cloud Foundry are clearly two different tools. Dr. Julz continued a line of thought that he had brought up at the Unconference about considering that there are two specific personas in this world, one focused on application development and one on the infrastructure. To him, the side-by-side view is the preferred view.<\/p>\n<p><center><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/eric-malm-dr-max-dr-julz-cloud-foundry-summit-2018-boston-v2.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/eric-malm-dr-max-dr-julz-cloud-foundry-summit-2018-boston-v2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-32463\" \/><\/a><small><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/eric-malm-a3554117\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Eric Malm<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/drmaximilien\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Max<\/a>, and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/julian-friedman\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Julz<\/a> at the CAB call during the Cloud Foundry Summit 2018<\/small><\/center><\/p>\n<p>The still-new <a href=\"https:\/\/docs.cloudfoundry.org\/cfcr\/\">Cloud Foundry Container Runtime<\/a> (CFCR) was also part of the discussion, as it is used to deploy and manage Kubernetes clusters with BOSH. CFCR was previously known as <a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/not-only-for-cloud-foundry-kubo-enables-kubernetes-deployments-with-bosh\/\">Kubo<\/a> and represents an effort by the Cloud Foundry community to accommodate Kubernetes and its most popular usage.<\/p>\n<p>The quick rise and fall of Docker within the context of modern IT gets mentioned now and then in Cloud Foundry conversations as it did during the call. Participants noted that Kubernetes has seemed to wrap it into its world over the past year. As a result, Max noted, \u201cit&#8217;s losing the value of Swarm,\u201d which is Docker&#8217;s way of deploying and managing clusters.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"How_critical_are_things_really\"><\/span>How critical are things, really?<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<div id=\"attachment_32474\" style=\"width: 130px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/bret-mogilefsky-cloud-foundry-summit-2018.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-32474\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/bret-mogilefsky-cloud-foundry-summit-2018-150x150.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"120\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-32474\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-32474\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><small>Bret Mogilefsky<\/small><\/p><\/div>\n<p>As the discussion wound down, I raised the question as to whether everyone was really talking about an existential problem for Cloud Foundry and whether it was seriously threatened by the rise of Kubernetes over the past year. No one would go that far, but <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/bretmogilefsky\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Bret Mogilefsky<\/a> suggested that this is a good time for the community to create a map of the most worthy areas to pursue versus those that should perhaps receive less attention at this point.<\/p>\n<p>Probably, this will be on the agenda at a future meeting. It seems that Cloud Foundry is approaching a crossroads, if it hasn&#8217;t reached one already, and its future direction is worthy of deep discussion among developers and customers alike. The end-state of this conversation reverts to the beginning, in there was an agreement that no one wants to have to master two separate products to achieve a single goal, in this case the deployment of modern applications.<\/p>\n<p><center><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/Therese-Stowell-Eric-Malm-Pivotal-cloud-foundry-summit-2018.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/Therese-Stowell-Eric-Malm-Pivotal-cloud-foundry-summit-2018-1024x680.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" class=\"aligncenter size-large wp-image-32459\" \/><\/a><small><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/theresestowell\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Therese Stowell<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/eric-malm-a3554117\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Eric Malm<\/a> at the CAB call during the Cloud Foundry Summit 2018<\/small><\/center><\/p>\n<p>Thus, this conversation should not be perceived as an \u201ceither&#8230;or\u201d discussion, but also not as a metaphysical debate about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The issues are real, and realizing that the clich\u00e9 of eternal, continuous change within the technology business is also real, it&#8217;s clear that the future of Cloud Foundry is neither easily determined, nor pre-determined. The community, as always, has the power and responsibility to determine its future.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Whats_next\"><\/span>What&#8217;s next?<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>The next CAB call will resume in its standard format and is scheduled from 8 a.m. to 9 a.m. Pacific Time on Wednesday, May 16. As always, the call is open to anyone who is interested in listening or participating. Connection details and the monthly agenda appear on the <a href=\"https:\/\/cloudfoundry.slack.com\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Cloud Foundry Slack channel<\/a> a few days before the call.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Discussions about Kubernetes<\/p>\n<p id=\"caption-attachment-31876\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dave Nielsen<\/p>\n<p>Kubernetes has cast a long shadow over the Cloud Foundry community this past year and continued to do so in the early hours of the Cloud Foundry Summit 2018 in Boston and at this month&#8217;s Community Advisory Board (CAB) call.<\/p>\n<p>The summit was preceded by a [&#8230;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":32472,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[7],"tags":[618,207,208,873,912,206],"class_list":["post-32396","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news-and-opinion","tag-cab","tag-cf-foundation","tag-cf-summit","tag-cloud-native","tag-kubernetes","tag-oss-cloud-foundry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Cloud Foundry Advisory Board Meeting, Apr 2018: Kubernetes Casts Its Shadow | Altoros<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"A conversation about how Cloud Foundry and Kubernetes should co-exist\u2014side by side or as vertically integrated layers\u2014dominated the call at the summit in Boston.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Cloud Foundry Advisory Board Meeting, Apr 2018: Kubernetes Casts Its Shadow | Altoros\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Discussions about Kubernetes Dave Nielsen Kubernetes has cast a long shadow over the Cloud Foundry community this past year and continued to do so in the early hours of the Cloud Foundry Summit 2018 in Boston and at this month&#8217;s Community Advisory Board (CAB) call. The summit was preceded by a [...]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/cloud-foundry-advisory-board-meeting-apr-2018-kubernetes-casts-its-shadow\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Altoros\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2018-04-19T16:31:26+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-12-16T21:17:56+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/Cloud-Foundry-CAB-call-April-2018-CF-Summit-Boston-v6.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"960\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"540\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Roger Strukhoff\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Roger Strukhoff\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading 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Foundry Advisory Board Meeting, Apr 2018: Kubernetes Casts Its Shadow\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.altoros.com\\\/blog\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.altoros.com\\\/blog\\\/\",\"name\":\"Altoros\",\"description\":\"Insight\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.altoros.com\\\/blog\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.altoros.com\\\/blog\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/56ea20d6f280f7a442e89e5884b06fd8\",\"name\":\"Roger Strukhoff\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.altoros.com\\\/blog\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2016\\\/03\\\/roger_strukhoff_user_icon-150x150.jpg\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.altoros.com\\\/blog\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2016\\\/03\\\/roger_strukhoff_user_icon-150x150.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.altoros.com\\\/blog\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2016\\\/03\\\/roger_strukhoff_user_icon-150x150.jpg\",\"caption\":\"Roger Strukhoff\"},\"description\":\"Roger Strukhoff is Director of Research at Altoros. 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