<script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-wetherill/1/a04/a9" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script><script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/in/drnic" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script><script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsalas" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script><script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-wetherill/1/a04/a9" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script><script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/in/drnic" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script><script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsalas" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script><script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-wetherill/1/a04/a9" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script><script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/in/drnic" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script><script type="IN/MemberProfile" data-id="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsalas" data-format="inline"  data-related="false"></script>{"id":2062,"date":"2015-07-29T20:00:06","date_gmt":"2015-07-29T17:00:06","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/?p=2062"},"modified":"2020-12-07T02:20:26","modified_gmt":"2020-12-06T23:20:26","slug":"a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/","title":{"rendered":"A Panel: Will Docker Eat Cloud Foundry&#8217;s Lunch?"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"ez-toc-container\" class=\"ez-toc-v2_0_79_2 counter-hierarchy ez-toc-counter ez-toc-transparent ez-toc-container-direction\">\n<div class=\"ez-toc-title-container\">\n<p class=\"ez-toc-title\" style=\"cursor:inherit\">Table of Contents<\/p>\n<span class=\"ez-toc-title-toggle\"><a href=\"#\" class=\"ez-toc-pull-right ez-toc-btn ez-toc-btn-xs ez-toc-btn-default ez-toc-toggle\" aria-label=\"Toggle Table of Content\"><span class=\"ez-toc-js-icon-con\"><span class=\"\"><span class=\"eztoc-hide\" style=\"display:none;\">Toggle<\/span><span class=\"ez-toc-icon-toggle-span\"><svg style=\"fill: #999;color:#999\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" class=\"list-377408\" width=\"20px\" height=\"20px\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" fill=\"none\"><path d=\"M6 6H4v2h2V6zm14 0H8v2h12V6zM4 11h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2zM4 16h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2z\" fill=\"currentColor\"><\/path><\/svg><svg style=\"fill: #999;color:#999\" class=\"arrow-unsorted-368013\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"10px\" height=\"10px\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" version=\"1.2\" baseProfile=\"tiny\"><path d=\"M18.2 9.3l-6.2-6.3-6.2 6.3c-.2.2-.3.4-.3.7s.1.5.3.7c.2.2.4.3.7.3h11c.3 0 .5-.1.7-.3.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7zM5.8 14.7l6.2 6.3 6.2-6.3c.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7c-.2-.2-.4-.3-.7-.3h-11c-.3 0-.5.1-.7.3-.2.2-.3.5-.3.7s.1.5.3.7z\"\/><\/svg><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/a><\/span><\/div>\n<nav><ul class='ez-toc-list ez-toc-list-level-1 ' ><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-1\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/#Whats_the_issue\" >What\u2019s the issue?<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-2\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/#The_Cloud_Foundry%E2%80%93Docker_relations\" >The Cloud Foundry\u2013Docker relations<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-3\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/#How_Diego_fits_to_the_picture\" >How Diego fits to the picture<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/#The_bottom_line\" >The bottom line<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/#Want_details_Watch_the_video\" >Want details? Watch the video!<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-6\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/#Further_reading\" >Further reading<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-7\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/#About_the_panelists\" >About the panelists<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/nav><\/div>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Whats_the_issue\"><\/span>What\u2019s the issue?<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Released as open-source in 2013, Docker caught everyone\u2019s attention. However, in December 2014, CoreOS introduced Rocket\u2014a new container runtime. This announcement wreaked havoc, generating a concern that Docker may be challenged to evolve as a PaaS. Or, at least, it may incorporate some PaaS functionality and start competing with PaaS platforms, including Cloud Foundry.<\/p>\n<p>Some members of the Cloud Foundry ecosystem are raising this question from time to time\u2014despite the fact that Docker joined the CF Foundation recently. Those concerns were, probably, triggered by the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.docker.com\/blog\/announcing-docker-machine-swarm-and-compose-for-orchestrating-distributed-apps\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Docker roadmap<\/a> from December 2014.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/07\/cloud-foundry-docker-roadmap-v3.png\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/07\/cloud-foundry-docker-roadmap-v3.png\" alt=\"cloud-foundry-docker-roadmap-v3\" width=\"640\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-18097\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>If it looks like PaaS, moves like PaaS, and smells like PaaS, isn\u2019t it a PaaS?<\/p>\n<p>So, the panel at the CF Beat event (held in late December, 2015) tried to clear up the situation. The topic of the discussion was put as \u201cWill Docker Eat Cloud Foundry\u2019s Lunch?\u201d The panelists included <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/pub\/ramiro-salas\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ramiro Salas<\/a> (Pivotal), <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/pub\/dr-nic-williams\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Dr. Nic<\/a> (Stark &#038; Wayne), and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/pub\/john-wetherill\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John Wetherill<\/a> (ActiveState).<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"The_Cloud_Foundry%E2%80%93Docker_relations\"><\/span>The Cloud Foundry\u2013Docker relations<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>One of the very first questions raised by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/dnielsen\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Dave Nielsen<\/a>\u2014the moderator of the panel\u2014was how containers intersect with Cloud Foundry today and how the panelists see the evolution of this.<\/p>\n<p>Ramiro was the first to comment on the question. In his view, it\u2019s up to the community to determine how the Cloud Foundry\u2013Docker relations will evolve. At the same time, he thinks that all this thing with Docker eating Cloud Foundry\u2019s lunch isn\u2019t a valid question.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/07\/pivotal-ramiro-salas-v2.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/07\/pivotal-ramiro-salas-v2.png\" alt=\"pivotal-ramiro-salas-v2\" width=\"700\" height=\"394\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-18086\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>\u201cI mean, it\u2019s like is a carburetor market actually going to eat a car market? That\u2019s the way I see these things.\u201d \u2014Ramiro Salas, Pivotal<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>He nailed it with a remark questioning who is actually going to eat Cloud Foundry\u2019s lunch: the container <em>technology<\/em> or the Docker <em>company<\/em> itself?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cCan Docker as a company eat Cloud Foundry in the future? We are talking about anything, I mean, McDonald\u2019s can come to this business someday and completely bankrupt all of us, right?\u201d noted Ramiro.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"How_Diego_fits_to_the_picture\"><\/span>How Diego fits to the picture<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>According to Ramiro, the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/are-diego-and-docker-really-good-friends\/\">Diego<\/a> elastic runtime marks the next generation of Cloud Foundry. Initially created in Ruby as DEA, Diego was rewritten in Go. The choice of the language was explained by the complexity of the Ruby code itself. What Diego does is taking a lot of original Cloud Foundry components and distributing them. To Ramiro\u2019s mind, that\u2019s the way a PaaS should truly be in the 2015 time frame.<\/p>\n<p>One of the main benefits that Diego will bring is the possibility to run Docker containers on Cloud Foundry.<\/p>\n<p><center><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/07\/Stark-Wayne-Dr-Nic.png\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/07\/Stark-Wayne-Dr-Nic.png\" alt=\"Stark &amp; Wayne Dr Nic\" width=\"640\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-18087\" \/><\/a><small>John Wetherill (left) and Dr. Nick (center)<\/small><\/center><\/p>\n<p>When Ramiro spoke about the container technology itself, he said that containers had historically been a solution to address Cloud Foundry issues. Ramiro thinks that it doesn\u2019t have to be Warden containers or any other specific technology.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cIt can be literally anything that the community decides to plug in.\u201d \u2014Ramiro Salas, Pivotal<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"The_bottom_line\"><\/span>The bottom line<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>As a container orchestration technology, Docker does a great job, that\u2019s why it was chosen to do the job. What is more, Docker is easy to use. With the contribution of the community, Docker is rapidly evolving.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s the breaking point. At the end of the panel, a guy from the audience noted that the rival for Cloud Foundry is not Docker itself, but, probably, a potential set of PaaS systems that may come out of the Docker ecosystem\u2014built on top of the technology\u2019s engine. Taking into account the list of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.infoworld.com\/article\/2925484\/look-whos-helping-build-docker-besides-docker-itself.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">the main contributors<\/a> to the Docker code, this remark seems to make sense.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Want_details_Watch_the_video\"><\/span>Want details? Watch the video!<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<table width=100%>\n<tr>\n<td>\n<div style=\"float:right; width:45%; padding-left:15px; font-size:14px;\">\n<strong>Table of Contents<\/strong><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li style=\"margin-bottom: 10px;\">How can Cloud Foundry embrace developers interested in Docker and other container technologies who would also like to deploy their apps on a PaaS? (1:01)<\/li>\n<li style=\"margin-bottom: 10px;\">How do containers relate to Cloud Foundry today? (3:24)<\/li>\n<li style=\"margin-bottom: 10px;\">What is the Diego runtime? (10:14)<\/li>\n<li style=\"margin-bottom: 10px;\">How is container technology evolving within CF? Is it possible to build DEAs in Docker and then add some orchestration framework on top of that to replace Cloud Foundry? (11:37)<\/li>\n<li style=\"margin-bottom: 10px;\">Do you think that the fact that Cloud Foundry is currently harder to use than Docker is an issue that needs to be addressed? (15:47)<\/li>\n<li>Why is Docker not the actual competition to Cloud Foundry? Where&#8217;s the real threat? (19:44)<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"video-container\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"CloudFoundry Panel 3: Will Docker eat Cloud Foundry&#039;s lunch?\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/4rwciL0oTQI?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Further_reading\"><\/span>Further reading<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/are-diego-and-docker-really-good-friends\/\">Are Diego and Docker Really Good Friends?<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"About_the_panelists\"><\/span>About the panelists<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<div>\n<div style=\"float:right\"><!-- Linkedin Profile Badge: http:\/\/3doordigital.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/linkedin-profile-badge\/ -->\r\n<script type=\"IN\/MemberProfile\" data-id=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/pub\/john-wetherill\/1\/a04\/a9\" data-format=\"inline\"  data-related=\"false\"><\/script><\/div>\n<div style=\"width:450px;\"><small>John Wetherill is PaaS Evangelist at ActiveState. He is into any tools, systems, or languages that improve developer productivity. As a developer, his current responsibilities involve building cloud-based proofs-of-concept and contributing to the core product code base. Prior to ActiveState, John was a technology evangelist for Sun Microsystems, where he focused on all things Java. Now, he is a big fan of cloud technologies with a great interest in PaaS, microservices, and containerization.<\/small><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div>\n<div style=\"float:right\"><!-- Linkedin Profile Badge: http:\/\/3doordigital.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/linkedin-profile-badge\/ -->\r\n<script type=\"IN\/MemberProfile\" data-id=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/drnic\" data-format=\"inline\"  data-related=\"false\"><\/script><\/div>\n<div style=\"width:450px;\"><small>Dr. Nic Williams is CEO at Stark &#038; Wayne LLC. He is a renowned open-source contributor with over 300 projects being cherished by him. He is an adept of all things Cloud Foundry and Jenkins. Under his supervision, such projects as BOSH, Rails Installer, Rails TextMate bundle, New Gem, GitHub Badges, and many more were created and nurtured. He is a welcome speaker at international Ruby and Go conferences.<\/small><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div>\n<div style=\"float:right\"><!-- Linkedin Profile Badge: http:\/\/3doordigital.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/linkedin-profile-badge\/ -->\r\n<script type=\"IN\/MemberProfile\" data-id=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/rsalas\" data-format=\"inline\"  data-related=\"false\"><\/script><\/div>\n<div style=\"width:450px;\"><small>Ramiro Salas is Cloud Foundry Advisory Solutions Architect at Pivotal. Ramiro is a member of the Pivotal\u2019s CF team that focuses on strategic and high-profile customers. He is also Lead Architect for OpenStack and Network Virtualization integration, assisting in strategy, partner engagements, and reference architectures. Before Pivotal, Ramiro worked for VMware, evangelizing its solutions around OpenStack, NFV, and other emerging technologies worldwide.<\/small><\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What\u2019s the issue?<\/p>\n<p>Released as open-source in 2013, Docker caught everyone\u2019s attention. However, in December 2014, CoreOS introduced Rocket\u2014a new container runtime. This announcement wreaked havoc, generating a concern that Docker may be challenged to evolve as a PaaS. Or, at least, it may incorporate some PaaS functionality and start competing [&#8230;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":18104,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[7],"tags":[625,873,570,206],"class_list":["post-2062","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news-and-opinion","tag-cf-beat","tag-cloud-native","tag-containers","tag-oss-cloud-foundry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>A Panel: Will Docker Eat Cloud Foundry&#039;s Lunch? | Altoros<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"John Wetherill, Dr. Nic, and Ramiro Salas discuss the role of Docker for the Cloud Foundry community, including potential threats the container engine may bring.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"A Panel: Will Docker Eat Cloud Foundry&#039;s Lunch? | Altoros\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"John Wetherill of ActiveState, Dr. Nic of Stark &amp; Wayne, and Ramiro Salas of Pivotal discuss the role of Docker for the Cloud Foundry community, including potential threats.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Altoros\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-07-29T17:00:06+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2020-12-06T23:20:26+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/07\/CloudFoundry-Panel-3-Will-Docker-eat-Cloud-Foundrys-lunch-v3.gif\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"640\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"360\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/gif\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Alex Khizhniak\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Alex Khizhniak\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"5 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.altoros.com\/blog\/a-panel-will-docker-eat-cloud-foundry-s-lunch\/\",\"name\":\"A Panel: Will Docker Eat Cloud Foundry's Lunch? 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